#179 Music Career Myths: What Parents Need to Know with Melissa Mulligan Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker Robbins  00:58

when your teen expresses interest in a music career, your first instinct might be to worry about their financial future. Can they really make a living? Should they major in music? What if they’re wasting their college investment on an unrealistic dream? Today’s conversation will completely shift how you think about music careers and education. I’m thrilled to welcome Melissa Mulligan, founder of music career mastermind, who has spent over two decades helping musical creatives build sustainable, joyful careers. Her clients have topped charts, won platinum records, and attended prestigious programs like NYU and Berkeley. But here’s a twist, many of them didn’t major in music. We’ll explore while majoring in music isn’t always the best path for contemporary music careers. How music makers actually earn a living today, and what you need to know to support your teen’s musical aspirations while ensuring their financial security. Melissa will share practical strategies for career exploration, the importance of mentorship and how to help your teen create a realistic roadmap for success in the music industry. If you’ve been struggling with how to support your musically talented teen without sacrificing their future stability, then this episode My friend, will give you the clarity and confidence you need. I’m Lisa Mark Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity, a flourish, coaching production. Let’s dive right in to a great conversation. Melissa, it’s so great to have you on the show. Welcome. Thank

 

Melissa Mulligan  02:42

you, Lisa. I’m so excited to talk with you today. This is going to be great.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  02:47

It is I, you know, I take the broader lens of like, let’s just help you figure out that career path and career advising and development, and you double down on careers related to music, yes, and so this is going to be a great conversation, because, having done this, supported 4000 students over the last 15 years. In this space, I regularly hear parents whose kiddos have some musical talent, and the kid maybe is thinking about a music career. Parents, their first objection is, nope, not paying for you to major in music. I want you to be able to make a living. You know? I mean, the odds are it’s, we all know it’s, you know, hard to make it big. But parents unwilling to support their stuff that they don’t want to support them, right? But they just feel like they’re setting them up for failure. I have to guess, like it’s a lot of money to pay for something that doesn’t have an assured path where, like, if I’m going to be a teacher or a nurse, feels more assured. And so I know you hear that objection a lot, too,

 

Melissa Mulligan  04:00

not as much as you probably, probably, probably Yeah. Because a lot of times when parents reach out to me, I have the opposite problem. A lot of times parents reach out to me and say, I want to support my kid who wants to have a career in music. So can you help them get into a great music school, and I am often talking them out of music school for a music career. Oh, wow, because majoring in music is often not a good idea if you want to become a contemporary professional music maker. So how’s that for a kickoff to this conversation, I love

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  04:43

it, because I’m already going, Ah, I’m going to be sending this episode to countless families,

 

Melissa Mulligan  04:49

right? So I think there’s a there’s a couple of different questions and maybe assumptions inside of that parental concern,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  04:59

an area. Really. So what are they? What do you think they are? So

 

Melissa Mulligan  05:02

number one is, is a music major a wise investment? And is it worth going into debt for either for my kid or for me as a family? That’s the first concern. And then the second concern is, or maybe the primary concern for some of these parents is like, Can they even have a career in music? Like, is that even a thing that you can roadmap to and should Is it a responsible parental decision to support this or to indulge this? And how do I know whether that’s the right move? Because parents, by and large, love their children, want to support them, but they also want to know, like at the end of the day, they want to know, well, I did the right thing. I did the right thing, right and so there’s a bit of that safety of if I send my kid to college and they major in something logical, other parents will say, you’re doing the right thing, you know. And I can pat myself on the back, you know, that I at least got them into a good college with a good major, and I at least did my part. If you don’t do that, you know, you you let your kid take a gap year or not go to college or major in music or pursue a career. I think sometimes there’s that like it, it just feels like I’m sending them into the abyss and I don’t know what I’m doing. Does that make sense? It

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  06:37

does. You know, I think the universal for parents is, I just want my kiddo to be happy, right? That I never get pushed back on that, like everybody says, I want my kid to be happy. But then there feels this internal conflict for the families in the space that we’re talking about. And I like how you put it. Is it even responsible for me? Because, oh my gosh, this is really a complicated career path. Is it responsible? Because the one of the fears I see a lot of parents having is, am I messing my am I going to mess my kid up? You know, as it relates to careers like, careers have changed widely, and they’re all these emerging careers, and it’s more expensive than ever to get a college education. And admissions works differently, and it works really differently where in the space that you’re in, if they pursue a degree in it. And so it’s, am I going to mess them up, which I think goes along with is this even a responsible decision? Because ultimately, failure to launch is a really, real fear,

 

Melissa Mulligan  07:44

sure, right? And so that’s why I do what I do in music career mastermind and in my coaching is whether you’re going to College majoring in music or you’re graduating from college, it doesn’t matter like you could major in basket weaving and or basketball and still have an amazing music career. You do not need a piece of paper or an institution or anyone’s permission to become great at your craft. Become an entrepreneur and launch yourself. You don’t need that phase to create a great career. I worry more about the parents and the students who think that music programs will do something for them that it won’t, and so they feel this intense pressure. I want to be a successful singer songwriter, so I must go to Berkeley, USC, Belmont NYU, but by the way, I have students at all of those programs. They’re fine. There’s no knock against any program. But if you go into it thinking, I’m going to graduate from one of these programs and then I’m going to have a career and I’m going to write my own ticket, you’re wrong. You actually need a lot of outside mentorship and a lot of additional experiences and a way to make a sustainable income while you’re working toward music being full time, money, and that’s not get that’s not provided to you inside of an academic institution,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  09:19

that wow, that, that earning the money thing is real, because that’s really what it comes down to for a lot of these which, if you’re not earning a living wage, then it is, in many ways, feels like, even if it’s not failure to launch, because the kiddos back in your home, or you’re still supporting them. It’s interesting, though, what you said about like you have students that you’ve worked with that are at all of those notable institutions that are fantastic institutions. Yeah, I feel like that way about the Ivy League when I was acting as an independent educational consultant, doing more of the IEC work than the Career Development and Advising work, which I’ve doubled down on. Now. So people would say to me, Oh, we want to get into a basically a brand name school, right? And I would say, not a huge fan, because I also think that people feel like there’s this assured outcome, right by spending $100,000 $90,000 a year at a really difficult to get into institution, and that’s not it. Now, I have worked with students who attend all of those schools, right? Not against them, but I do think it’s managing the expectations of what it could actually provide. Yeah,

 

Melissa Mulligan  10:36

I don’t think there are bad programs, but I know for sure there are very bad reasons to go to them. You know, some of these brand name institutions, people are going for really bad reasons with with really problematic expectations. And I know this because I work with their graduates all the time, and they’re just as lost as the 17 year olds, not all of them again, but you can graduate from a program like that, and from a career standpoint, in an earning potential standpoint, still be very unclear, still be very lost.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  11:12

I’m working with the University of Pennsylvania. Well now recent graduate, we started right at the end of senior year, and I said, you know, what did you think you were going to be when you grew up? When you were in high school? He’s like, I didn’t. I just wanted to get into an Ivy League school. Okay, he did that. Then I got there and I Okay, well, what did you think you were going to do with that degree? I didn’t. I wanted to go study abroad. I wanted to. So here we have an Ivy League graduate who is still figuring it out. The good news is it’s figureoutable. So let’s talk about how you as far as figureoutable, how you support a family going like, do we head into a music major? Do we major in something else and work on a still work on a career path? Like, what does that conversation look like? Sure.

 

Melissa Mulligan  12:00

So here’s how I do it. I start with the unicorn jumping over the rainbow dream. That’s my first question. I don’t care if you’re 15 or 50, if you want to work with me, that’s where we start. Like, What’s your ultimate unicorn jumping over the rainbow dream? Then, based on where they are in their development, musically, artistically, skill wise, we figure out what are the skills that you need to build in order to work toward that goal? What are the experiences you really need to have and curate over the next few years of your life in order to work toward that goal. And what do you think you might want to do for a sustainable income along the way? Because making a full time living in the arts is it’s that’s the long game. I mean, I work with artists who have gold records who aren’t making a full time adult salary year after

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  12:57

year. People need to hear that right there, but,

 

Melissa Mulligan  13:01

but because they were smart in building really great skills like music production skills, music business skills, etc. They might not be making full time money off of their original music, but they’re making a killing writing, recording, promoting with other artists, right? So they have a sustainable income plan built into their plan. A so that’s my favorite, is when you realize the orbital skills you need around being a great music maker, you’re really building very valuable, monetizable skills, either in the workforce, or in the freelance kind of gig economy, which is really popular in contemporary music. Once we figure all that out, we really have your roadmap. And guess what? Majoring in music in college doesn’t need to be on it. So then I usually ask the student, what are you hiring college to do for you? You’re not just applying and hoping you get into somewhere. What are you hiring? It’s expensive and it’s it’s four important years of your life. So what are you hiring it to do for you? A lot of times I hear community building, networking, life experience, more exposure to different types of music classes. Sometimes I hear I don’t really care. My parents want me to get a degree. You know, whatever it is, it’s fine. So then we start to figure out what programs and majors and cities that you want to live in, what types of programs might make sense for you, but ideally, I get to work with the student with my team for like two to three months, and once they’ve gotten a. High Level mentorship from like Grammy winners and platinum sellers on music production and music business and songwriting. They decide for themselves. By the end of that time, they’re like, Okay, I I’m looking at the course curriculum, at this program, and I could teach these classes like I’ve learned so much, and I’m so more much more advanced, I don’t need these basic intro to Logic Pro classes. I don’t so I don’t want to major in that. Maybe I want to major in music business, because we did classes on that, and I was really into it, and I see how that could help me with my career. Or maybe I want to manage in videography, because I’ve got to be a great video editor to launch my music. So it’s usually through that lived experience that students start to decide for themselves what they want to hire college for.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  15:52

I love the question of, What do you want to hire college for? It’s a rich question. So clearly you’re very good at coaching, because they arrive to this answer on their own, out of curiosity, because the ones that come to you are more aimed at music, probably as a major to your point. Before you know, when I pose a question that I get or the pushback I get from parents, ultimately, at the end of that process, would you say more the majority of your students land and you know, I’m still going to major in something related to my music career? Or do more of them pick something a different route? I would

 

Melissa Mulligan  16:34

say probably a third of the ones that are still in high school, I would say a third of them choose to major in, like songwriting composition, some music production, but not so much because they get so advanced, usually working with with our coaches. So it’s usually songwriting, composition, film scoring. There’s some performance majors, and a lot of times a performance major can be a great way, if you’re really well trained, and you want to double down on that, you can get a really good scholarship. So So sometimes that’s just a very savvy part of the strategy, warmer to do exactly, but I would say a vast majority of them wind up doing something more like commercial music, with the music industry leaning heavy, heavy focus on music industry, music business, because they realize college isn’t like an artist development incubator. And now I have help on that front already. So if I do music business, I can get internships at labels, and then graduate with connections in the industry, and I know how to run myself, like the music making entrepreneur I need to be. So that is pretty common, but everyone’s path is different. I don’t have a hard fast like this is the best major for everyone who wants a career. You know, it’s very individualized. Sure you feel the same way. What do

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  18:12

you have? And I’m thinking we recently worked with a student, Emma. She was going to major in musical theater, you know, performance, and then actually ended up, once we took the Berkman and we saw her other strengths, it was very clear her music passion and strengths and creativity, but some other strengths led more to pursuing a management degree, whilst for the same reasons that you do, and she’s in New York now doing that, and got great scholarships, by the way, do you see students pursuing majors that are like completely unrelated to the industry at all, working with them?

 

Melissa Mulligan  18:51

Yeah, absolutely. I actually one of the artists that I’ve coached just graduated from college and got a job as the weatherman. He’s a meteorologist. Oh, fun, yeah. And that is his sustainable income passion, but he is still, like working with us on music production and releasing music. And, you know, I think if he got offered a tour, you know, tomorrow, he’d take it. But he’s also has this additional passion, and I love it.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  19:22

Well, I think it’s probably this is one of the things that conversations that we have inside our launch Career Clarity course with the students, is there are attributes to the creativity that you have as an artist that carries over if we kind of pull the lens out, instead of being under a microscope, you know, it’s more like a camera lens. We’re pulling out, and we’re taking a broader view of something. And the people who love music and performance, they’re very creative. And so it’s looking at, I we had a student who is. She she ended up not wanting to pursue a musical career, but she had a lot of experience through, you know, elementary school through high school, and she really leaned into where creativity could show up, even in stem so she’s now working as a flavorist, a chemical she got a chemical engineering degree, and she’s a flavorist, inventing flavors and scents, and for for a big company that does that for other brands. So it’s really taking that broader view of what can creativity look like. And so with your meteorologist guy, I hear that like, well, that’s still performance, right?

 

Melissa Mulligan  20:43

Yeah. I mean, I think where, where this is a very personal thing for me. I mean, like my mother told me I couldn’t major in music too, and so I think more often than not, teens are talked out of trying on a music career for size too soon. It’s if it’s hypothetical, it’s not real, and it’s not a real decision. You’re backing away from it because it doesn’t I want to be logical. I want to be safe, I want to do the right thing. I want to be able to make a living. I want to be a grown up about this. And I mean, you’re 17, give it a run, you know? And so again, you know, this is all part of the inspiration behind why I built music career mastermind with my team. Because, you know, here I am working in the music industry, day in and day out, having these conversations about what it takes and going but these students aren’t getting access to that early enough to make an educated decision about whether this is for me or not. You know, I think if you allow a student to come in and live the life of a professional, like working at home in your DAW day in and day out, banging your head against a wall, trying to get things to sound right, learning social media, collaborating with other artists, right, if you if you gain that experience, then you can make a really wise decision, and you can also make wise pivots to your point, you know? You can say, you know, wow, I thought I could just be a good singer and get discovered, and now I’m realizing I have to do all of this myself, and I have to pay my own taxes and maybe pay for my own health insurance, and maybe I’ll just be good at music, but also look into some other things that I’m passionate about, you know. So there’s power in that too, rather than just saying no,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  22:52

absolutely. So you talk about one, one of the things that you and I are very alike and I’m hearing is we want to make informed decisions, not just throw spaghetti at the wall and see what happens to stick. So we want to make an informed decision, but that takes time. I you know I frequently have we give the Berkman personality assessment inside the course, and there are people I’m always like, we’re not for you. If you want to take a quick quiz or even a 30 minute assessment, and it tell you the one thing that you should go be like, it’s a process. Yeah, you’ve got to commit to the process and the time period for career planning, for career development. I love that idea that you’re also saying, like, let’s start early. So for the parents that are listening who they’re picturing their kiddo who loves music and maybe dreams of what could be, what is the right time to start, and what are the first things that you can do to how to support your teen appropriately?

 

Melissa Mulligan  23:51

That’s a great question. It’s never too late and it’s never too early, because if music is within you, you can quit it and talk yourself out of it a million times over and have a great career in STEM but it will find you. It will find you in your 30s or in your midlife crisis, you know. So if, if it is a passion, it’s never too soon and it’s never too late to reach out to to me, even, or someone like me and just sort of say, Hey, these are the things that my kid is interested in. This is where they are right now. Where should we start? Because it’s going to be, I’m going to have a different answer, right? Probably going to have 10 questions for you before I have an answer, and I have a different answer for every single person that I meet.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  24:42

Okay, that makes sense. Now you have every client answer your rainbows and unicorns question, yeah, I always say, like, if I had this ideal time that I would step in to support somebody’s career development journey, I do have. Have. If Lisa had her utopian society that I’ve now made peace with, will never exist, I would say the ideal time and why. There are things you can do earlier, and it’s never too late, but you will have limited options. Your options become more limited the older you get, with a lot of the choices that we make in my utopian society, I would want to grab a second semester sophomore in high school, because I feel like there’s enough bandwidth that they can dedicate some time and energy to taking steps so that what comes that day after graduation, or three months after high school graduation was an informed decision. So yeah, so I hear you on this, never too early. It’s never too late. And in your utopian society, if you got, if you got to double down on the ideal semester that you would want people to start to work, what would it be?

 

Melissa Mulligan  26:00

Got you so if we’re talking especially about making a college decision, sophomore year is utopia. It’s utopia. I often work with seniors and juniors, and what I always hear is we should have done this sophomore year always, yeah, but I don’t want anybody to panic.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  26:27

If it’s figure out, it’s figure

 

Melissa Mulligan  26:30

out still, yes. But if, if you’re not there yet and you’re headed there, yeah, that would be awesome. It’d be awesome for all of us. Yeah, right. I

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  26:39

mean, I was just talking to a mom who reached out to us when her daughter was a senior at Ohio State University, and she’s like, we don’t know what’s going to come next. This was earlier, and we figured it out, even within the degree that she was earning, that she hadn’t even imagined what career it could lead to, so it was still figure outable. And the mom’s feedback to me was, and I wish we would have done this when she was in high school. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I read it. So okay, so any parting words of advice that you would give for those that are wrestling with this decision, this path,

 

Melissa Mulligan  27:24

I guess my my advice for parents is, don’t be scared. There are so many ways to make a real, sustainable, safe, secure, living in music, most of the people making a living in music are not Taylor Swift, yes, but it’s not just the Taylor Swifts of the world who are making a living. There’s a whole huge industry of music makers that support themselves in a variety of ways. So don’t be scared. I’m here. Lisa’s here. Just seek answers and seek support. You know your kid better than I do, of course, always, but, but you don’t need to be scared, and even if you do decide to major in music, most music majors work in other fields, so clearly, it’s not like you’re not qualified for anything. Music majors are really, really tough degrees to finish. You finish with a lot of useful skills, and employers don’t roll their eyes as much as you might think on that, on that degree, but if you really think that music is your kid’s passion again, reach out. Look for support, get some answers, so that you feel that calming clarity through this process.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  28:46

I love that. Just don’t panic. This is figure out a bowl. The tools are there, and I would say that you’ve got to make the space to do the work.

 

Melissa Mulligan  28:57

Yeah, in man, that’s like the metaphor for life, for anything that’s valuable to you, a space to do the work. Yeah,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  29:06

yeah. I posted on social media this week because I don’t love the career advice about, like, follow your passion, because I do. While, yes, we all have passions, and I think music is a passion that typically, I see is lifelong. It’s got some longevity to it. We all have seasons of passions. I’ve seen passion grow with proficiency. I did this post on social media with these flowers, actually, that are right behind us, that I grew in my yard, my peonies. And it makes me sad. They only bloom for a week or two every year. But that idea of, I cultivate those plants year round. I work hard on them. They’re beautiful. I love working in my yard. People who listen to me know that, but it’s a process, and it takes time, and I have to dedicate it to it. So that’s that’s so true, anything that’s worthwhile is going to require some dedication and some space in. Your life to make it work. Well, Melissa, if people want more support from you and your team, which it sounds like you give fantastic support to those that are figuring it out, how can they get in touch with you?

 

Melissa Mulligan  30:11

That’s lovely. Thank you for asking. Well, if you’re listening to Lisa, you can just email me. I’m Mel at mastermind road.com but you can also go to my website, which is mastermind road.com there’s a little tab with my name on it and a work with Mail button, and you can literally just just brain dump to me. These are my questions. These are the things I’m interested in. What do I do? You can include links to music and videos and stuff, and I will get back to you with some advice and with some feedback, and then if it makes sense for us to work together. Great, if my advice is enough to just sent you off and running freely. Great,

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  30:52

wonderful. Well, Mel, thanks for making time. So appreciate you.

 

Melissa Mulligan  30:57

Thank you so much, Lisa. I love what you do looking forward to more.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  31:02

We we have something coming up, but we’re not. We can’t talk about it yet.

 

Melissa Mulligan  31:06

That’s right, okay.

 

Lisa Marker Robbins  31:13

What a refreshing perspective from Melissa. If you’re the parent of a musical teen, I hope this conversation helped you see that supporting their passion doesn’t mean sacrificing their financial future. There are viable paths that combine artistic fulfillment with sustainable income. Remember the key is starting career exploration early, ideally in sophomore year, and focusing on building relevant skills and real world experiences, not just coursework, as Melissa emphasized, it’s about asking, What are you hiring a college to do when you’re making your education decisions? If you want to dig deeper into this topic, I’m really excited to announce a four expert panel that Melissa and I along with Dr Christine gangelhoff and Dr Elena Johnson, are hosting, it’s called Real Talk panel mapping music careers and college paths. We’ll be covering even more strategies for supporting your musical team and exploring practical pathways to success in the music industry. You can register for this free event at flourish coaching, co.com forward slash music. This is a perfect opportunity to get your specific questions answered and connect with others navigating similar decisions. Thank you as always for listening to College and Career Clarity. If this episode was helpful, please share it with another parent who might benefit. I’ll see you next time for another conversation designed to help you support your teen’s journey to a clear, confident future. You.