#203 Surviving Winter Break with Family: Andrea Malkin Brenner on Staying Connected Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 0:37
The holidays are about to bring your college student back through your front door, your teen with way too much time on their hands, or your young adult back to the nest for a few days. And if you’re already wondering how to welcome them home without losing your sanity, you are not alone. That is why I brought back Dr Andrea Malcolm Brenner. Andrea is a sociologist, author, speaker, and the creator of one of the first full year, first year college experience courses in the country at American University. She has spent decades studying and supporting college transition, and she understands this unique push and pull of this season better than anyone. Andrea breaks down why these homecomings feel bumpy, how to set expectations without slipping back into parenting that 10 year old child, and how to strike that balance between letting them rest and still holding the non negotiables for the things that matter to your family during the holiday season, whether you have a college freshman, a senior who still does laundry like it’s optional, or even a young adult who breezes in for a Few days before heading back to their own life. This conversation will help you navigate the sleep schedules, curfews, deeper talks and the all new identities your young person may be trying on. I’m Lisa Marco Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity a flourish coaching production. Let’s dive right into a great conversation.

Speaker 1 2:07
Andrea, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me, Lisa. I’m so excited to have

Lisa Marker-Robbins 2:13
you back on and I can’t believe we were just together in person recently. So very exciting. That’s even more fun than being online, but we’ll take what we can get right. Well, happy holidays. You are, like, dressed for the holidays. I love it. I’m getting in the mood, and that is our topic for this episode. Like navigating particularly freshmen coming home for the holidays, which you are a specialty. That is your specialty? Yeah, is these first year college students and all the many things that go with it. And as I was looking at over everything, I’m like, oh so much of this is applicable to whether you still have a teen in your home, an older college student, maybe even a young adult who’s living on their own, but they come home and it can but the hardest year probably is that freshman year, right? I would agree 100% what is, what do you find as you’re working with this particular age group is the most challenging part of these freshmen, because this is, I guess often it’s the first time they’ve been home.

Andrea Malkin Brenner 3:18
Yeah, sometimes they’ve come home for long weekends, but this is usually the first extended period of time. And I love to say to parents, you know, treat this as practice for winter break when you have them for a much longer time, much longer especially if you’re a new college parent, probably longer than you’re anticipating.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 3:40
You may want to actually, like, bookmark this, you know, to keep coming back to every time they’re coming home. Right?

Andrea Malkin Brenner 3:46
Exactly, exactly. I mean, there’s so many little things that pop up, and most of my work, as I’ve said on your podcast before, is data driven. So we look at where students and families are really meeting challenges in that first year, and then kind of circle back and talking to high school families and new college new college families about what that can be. So I would say it’s really the focus on quality versus quantity. Time you know your student is going to come home from college, probably exhausted. College doesn’t stop when they come home. They’re going to have assignments they may have been up doing projects right before they came home, and they really do need to sleep, and that’s hard because sometimes it’s over programmed time. And I love to say to families, try your best not to over program because we really do have to respect that our kids be both sleep, you know, sleep and nutritious food. I’ll put this together. And then also, you know, the ability to just close the door and get caught up on work. And I get

Lisa Marker-Robbins 4:50
it as, you know, as a mom, we’re both moms, it’s like when they come home at winter break, particularly and and I just realized, like, we’re dropping this between Thanksgiving and one. Our break this episode, but it’ll be a good one, even for any other time they’re home, but like you’re just craving time with them, if you’ve not seen that a lot. So I love that idea of like from a parent mindset focusing on quality over quantity.

Andrea Malkin Brenner 5:16
Yeah, absolutely. And I also love to say to families, I think this is a great message for your students is talk about these things in advance, right? Tell your parent or talk to your student about your needs, right? I am going to have to get catch up, you know, catch up on sleep. I am going to have to do these three projects, and they’ll take me approximately this amount of time, just so there’s no surprises. I would say it’s especially tough for new first year college students coming home for their first extended break when you know they’re they’re, they’re a little bit surprised that there are still rules, or maybe the big C word, curfew, when they come home, when they have really lived on their own. And it is tough to parent a young adult who has been away from home and they have not had anybody, you know, checking in on what they’re eating and when they’re waking up and, you know, telling them what time they should come down for a meal, and so really, kind of having a conversation in advance about what are the non negotiables from the parents perspective, right? So we can be flexible. We want to have relaxing time with you. But also, you know, we’ve got to go see grandma on this date. I need you available. I need you dressed. I need you ready, etc. So I think an open conversation, pre visit home, whether that’s Thanksgiving or winter break really can set the stage for a successful

Lisa Marker-Robbins 6:44
visit well, and just, you know, we, as, I think, as busy parents who are juggling so many things, and you’ve got the family calendar like, you know in your head, right? That to your point, we’re going to go see grandma on this day, or we have this particular event that is important to us as a family, expressing that like sending the list over, yes, as you’re talking about rest, one of the things that comes to mind that we talk a lot about in our launch Career Clarity community is like we need space for both rest, but also rejuvenation. And they’re really two different things. Yeah. And one of the places that My head went, we were just talking to we went out to dinner with our close friends last night, and they have a freshman that will be coming home. And they were talking about schedules. Rejuvenation comes from doing the things that feed your soul, like rest is sleep or maybe vegging out with some Netflix. But we also need space for rejuvenation, which for them, maybe seeing Grandma’s not necessarily rejuvenating, but absolutely it’s a non negotiable as a family. But what rejuvenates you, and it’s probably time with friends and things like that.

Andrea Malkin Brenner 7:52
Time with friends is the, probably the biggest complaint we hear from families is my student wants to be with their peers more than me, and for the for the freshman family, that makes complete sense. They’re coming from a world of living only with peers, right, right? And so when your social community is 18 and 19 year olds, you’re craving that. But again, that non negotiable word pops up. You can say to a college student, I totally get it that you want to see your romantic interest your high school buddies, but I really don’t want you to spend your home time with college friends that you’re going back to, right? So just being thoughtful about the conversation, because students do want to keep that going with their with their college folks, for sure.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 8:33
Well, when you talk about the curfew, what, let’s talk about the C word a little bit more. Yes, when you talk about curfew, I mean, for me, it was always like a sense of like, respect. And there were really even two curfews. What time would I maybe like your home by? What time would I like your friends to leave my house by so that it’s quite enough that I can sleep? And while this is a winter discussion that also tees up like that. I think it’s hard when they come home that summer after freshman year, because a lot of times by summer after after sophomore year. And parents hate to hear this, most of them, a lot of them, are staying on campus. They’re not coming home anymore, right? So what do you find most people do in that curfew? I know everybody’s gotta figure out what works for their

Andrea Malkin Brenner 9:22
family. Absolutely everything that

Lisa Marker-Robbins 9:23
works is there like a norm of what you see people gravitating to?

Andrea Malkin Brenner 9:27
There’s a norm. Lisa, but I think the advice that I would offer those families is have a two sided conversation. So instead of the parents saying, here’s the curfew now it’s what do you think is a reasonable time knowing that you’re coming home and we’re waiting up for you, or the noise will keep us up, etc, and so, you know, that’s part of having a college student, right? And the difference between that vertical parenting of, you know, parenting down that we’ve been doing since they were little, which makes complete sense, there is a hierarchy when we. Children living at home where, and especially when we’re in charge of their health and safety, and, you know, horizontal parenting, as we switch to that, that doesn’t mean you’re going to be your kid’s best friend. I think that’s a misconception, but it does mean we’re going to have more on par adult conversations, right? Yeah, they may not be a 50 year old adult, but they are still able to have an adult conversation that’s reasonable. You’re no longer talking to an angsty teenager, and I think that’s really important, is to say, you know, I want to thinking about a curfew. Maybe we don’t even use that word anymore, since you’ve been on your own, but like, what time seems reasonable to you? And then have a little negotiation. I think that makes complete sense.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 10:41
Or even like, if you’re not going to be coming home, like, what you need to communicate. So I’m not worried

Andrea Malkin Brenner 10:49
sure and how you’re going to communicate, right? Send me a text by midnight, and all will be well, you know, whatever that works, whatever works for your

Lisa Marker-Robbins 10:56
family. I remember feeling that way. It’s like when they’re gone, and this seems so funny to me, like when they’re gone on campus, you don’t really know. And I wasn’t one of those moms who had, like, life 360 me. I don’t think it’s a great idea. And so I’m like, well, they’re they’re off doing their thing, and I don’t know, but suddenly, when they’re back in your house, it’s like you your brain turns back on to worrying

Andrea Malkin Brenner 11:22
about it again. Absolutely, there is something about them coming home, and I think that’s sometimes a challenge too, right? Because students coming home do want that comfort and almost that a little bit of that regression of being, you know, in your parents home and having meals cooked for you, and, you know, patting down in your PJs and all of those, especially with holidays, right? The smells of home, the feeling of family, and that’s great, but there can sometimes be regression. And so how do you balance that with I’ve lived on my own, I don’t want to curfew, and again, I think conversations really the way to

Lisa Marker-Robbins 11:55
do it. I was gonna say so you are the master of these conversations with your talking college cards, and we’ll put a link to them in the show notes. You’ve got different decks for all different topics and phases of this journey, as we’re getting these kids a launch out on their own and and do you have any tips then on conversations when there’s total disagreement around? Okay, well, I don’t like that word curfew. And by the way, no, I think it should be, you know, I don’t know a kid saying something unreasonable and they’re both doubling down, and you maybe you just need your sleep as a parent. But any tips for like closing the gap when the gaps exist?

Andrea Malkin Brenner 12:40
Yeah, I think that’s really that’s complicated and can be challenging. I think a lot of negative interaction can be avoided with conversation, multiple conversations, right? Start the conversation early. So maybe you do test it out Thanksgiving and you see what didn’t go so well. Don’t expect perfection. And then you can say to them a couple of weeks before they’re home for winter break. You know, here’s some things I didn’t think worked great about us together at Thanksgiving, I’m going to tell you, and you tell them, and you say, what kind of things didn’t you think worked well? And have that again, having that horizontal parenting conversation, and how can we change things so maybe they’re a little bit better, and everybody feels respected when you come home. And maybe that’s they’re sleeping at a friend’s house on a night they want to be at a party very late, you know, whatever that might be for your family, the earlier the better. But letting that student be a part of that negotiation, I think when it comes to that student coming home and really having so growing and working into a new identity, that can be really challenging. I think you and I have talked about this before, but I love to talk to families about the power of the word yet. So if you know that you’re going to be at a Thanksgiving or a or a holiday table, Christmas table, and you know that there’s going to be a lot of extended family who say, you know, all right, kid, you know you’re in college now, what are you going to major in? What are you going to be when you grow up? When you get what is your summer? What are your summer plans? And that can be overwhelming to your kid again. Talk about in advance. Talk to them about the difference between saying I don’t know and I don’t know yet, right? Because I don’t know yet means it’s a process. I’m in, that growing process. Here are my interests, but I’m not exactly sure what I want to do yet. And, you know, instead of them being sort of turned off by that kind of prep them, and this is a realistic thing, that parent, you know, your extended family is going to start asking you some questions

Lisa Marker-Robbins 14:35
well, and it really come, I think, recognizing that those questions actually come from a good place, right? Absolutely, those family members, extended family members. They’re excited for these kiddos, and they want to support them and cheer them on. So while it can feel very pressure filled to the teen or young adult no like they’re only asking because they care about you and they’re. Excited for you. They want to encourage you. Because when we put a different lens something on like where the well meaning questions are coming from, despite what they might like feel to you in the moment, that kind of helps us to be a little bit more accepting, right?

Andrea Malkin Brenner 15:14
Absolutely, absolutely, I think so. And I you know, another thing that comes to mind is, and it’s hard to just as it is, especially at Thanksgiving, when our time is a little more limited, we do need to leave some time for the deeper conversations, right? Students might come home with new identities. They’re trying on totally different political bend than they different things that they learned. And again, we send them to college to expand their minds. Can’t get angry when their minds are expanded, right? So sometimes there is a little bit of this, like, don’t judge the new me, you know, and and that’s tough, especially with extended family, who might not be as welcoming. So I love to tell families, you know, set aside some just downtime, where you Yes, absolutely time to watch TV and relax and play a game, but also time to actually have some heavy conversations in case they come up. Maybe they’re about a change in a major or maybe they’re about an identity, or maybe they’re about something that they’re just learning and they want to explore more and talk it through. I think that’s tough as parents. I know I went through this when my kids came home from college, when I saw them changing, and I was thrilled that they were changing, but at the same time, I was like, I don’t know these new young adults. Yeah, right. And I want a little bit of time to get to know the way they’re thinking,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 16:28
or they have new people in their lives that you’re thinking like, well, who is that person? Or right? How could

Andrea Malkin Brenner 16:33
you have a best friend I’ve never met before? Exactly? It feels so foreign

Lisa Marker-Robbins 16:37
often. And I you know, we remind parents all the time, particularly when we’re doing the conversations around the career development piece right, validating their feelings and their thoughts, but knowing that validation doesn’t mean that you necessarily agree. So you brought up, like a great point, what if your kid comes back with different political beliefs? We’ll just pick on that one concern that’s a really easy target in this day and age, right? Regardless of what side you’re on or if you’re somewhere in between, if they come back with questioning or a different identity, you can validate their process or want to hear how they got there. But validation doesn’t have to mean that you agree. And I think a lot of times emotionally, people feel like, well, if I validate that, they’re going to think that I agree with all of it, but I don’t.

Andrea Malkin Brenner 17:25
I really, you know, I’m struggling a little bit. I don’t agree with this, but I want to hear more. Tell me why you feel that way. Get curious. Yeah, absolutely get curious. In the same way you were curious about them when they were, you know, figuring out their first words, right? We have this magical curiosity when our kids are little. And I would love that, you know, families could extend that into this college homecoming, right? Wow, my kid is changing. They might look different. They might eat different. There can be so much that changes in those first couple of months of college, even if you’ve seen them at a family weekend, and especially if I would say, if you’ve seen them, a family weekend that’s on their turf on their campus, but now they’re coming back to Yes, it was their turf, but right now it’s your turf. And what does that look like when somebody who hasn’t lived under your roof for a while is now backed under your roof? It’s not easy.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 18:15
You bring up a great point about like, how we welcomed this when they were teeny, tiny, right? They’re just like, they’re learning all the things. And I had a strategy that I use that really helped me, like when my kids were teens. And, you know, pairing teens is not an easy journey, but getting out a picture of them when they were that little, like, 3456, year old, like they’re just so pure and innocent, and all the things that you just see those little faces, and you’re like, oh my goodness, and keeping a picture of them at that stage out can be a great reminder and soften how You feel when you’re interacting on unfamiliar territory, or love

Andrea Malkin Brenner 19:03
that idea, oh, I’m gonna start using that. Steal it away. Absolutely, I love that. No, I’m sure I stole it from somebody. Oh, you know what it’s borrowing is fabulous. I love, I love the idea of, you know, as a as a new college parents, is to think about the fact that our kids are on campus every day and they’re going into classes where they are asked to think critically. They’re asked to, you know, criticize an author’s take on something. They’re asked to rebut. They’re asked to debate. That’s part of the learning process. We can’t expect them to come home and not do

Lisa Marker-Robbins 19:41
that, right? Yeah, that’s a really great point. Yeah. I mean, that’s like those higher level of thinking, intellectual type of conversations,

Andrea Malkin Brenner 19:51
right, right? And we want that, we want them to keep those going. And so it shouldn’t be an escape from that. I think we should continue that in a homey sort of way.

Unknown Speaker 20:01
I have a question for you

Lisa Marker-Robbins 20:02
because so your background, you know you created, and go ahead and just because I’ll butcher it, so I’m gonna let you talk through and you were an American university, yes, talk a little bit about you had created a very unique First Year Experience for freshmen.

Andrea Malkin Brenner 20:19
Yeah, absolutely. So my background is, I have a doctorate in sociology, and I was a sociology professor studying sociology of the first year students. So that intersection of sociology and education, and I did create the First Year Experience course at American University in Washington, DC, and it was, and it continues to be, even though I have left AU, I left au many years ago, that’s still a mandatory first year, full year course, which is,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 20:44
which is a unique piece, right? That is a few

Andrea Malkin Brenner 20:48
years and it Right exactly. And what that particular college does, and now, certainly many other schools are doing, is saying, you know, it’s not just the how to write an email, how to find the career center piece of that transition to college, but it’s how to talk across difference, how to interact with people who you might not like, right? How to Be polite and professional in settings where you need to be how to you know, most high school students have come from homogeneous environments, and they’re entering much more diverse experiences in college. Like, what does that look like? And so certainly, AU has kept that piece, and it has been, you know, changed and tweaked over the years, but I’m seeing lots of schools doing this now, and it’s so, so important. And I think when we welcome our kids home, we have to remember that they they’re being trained to do this sort of stuff, right? And so what?

Lisa Marker-Robbins 21:41
So what? It made me think it would have popped into my head like, no, like, Let’s lean into your experience with sociology and this intersection with education and these freshmen, you, for sure, navigated many different challenges of kids, like homesick or not being responsible when they couldn’t balance that independence as a freshman Absolutely. Are there any questions that a freshman parent and parents of older kids too could be checking in on, like, is there anything that you would say it would be very wise when you have that space for deeper conversation, and you create some connection there. And they’re they not right when they walk in the door after they’ve gotten some rest, you know, maybe it’s after a Hanukkah and Christmas and whatever you celebrate before New Year’s, and they’re going back, and they’re a little more rested, but like, just to be aware of what’s going on with their freshmen, to really check in. Like, are things really going well? What are the things to be looking for, or maybe Top of Mind conversations? Well,

Andrea Malkin Brenner 22:49
I That’s a great question, and I love the idea of a parent kicking it off, kicking off that conversation by talking about their own weaknesses when they were 18 or 19. Love it. So regardless of pair went to college or not, they can still talk about what it was like to leave home as a young adult, and to say, you know, when I was x age, when I left home for college or work or whatever, here’s the stuff I was struggling with. Are you finding any of the same struggles? Oh, you’re not. Well, what are some of those things that are challenging to you? Right? So normalizing challenges, I think that’s crucial. That’s that brain is still forming for many, many years. And you know, as I said on your podcast before, and I believe wholeheartedly, it is the rare student that arrives on campus, both socially and academically. You know, ready, right? And one is usually lagging behind, and that’s okay. Colleges are ready to welcome you, welcome messy, unfinished, unbaked, totally underbaked students, and that first, the first couple of years, is still kind of trying to figure out who they are. So I love that. I love leading with my own challenges. When I was your age. Also helps for, you know, sometimes students, especially teens, you know, they look at their parents at the current age they are, and they don’t even see them as that age. So it’s a great reminder of, you know, and sometimes it has to, you have to take a few minutes to actually think back, right? What, what we really was, was tough for me. What are the challenges I met? Are you having those same challenges? Oh, not that’s great. What are some of the challenges you’re facing? Normalizing that challenges are existing.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 24:26
Well, I’m even thinking like as you say that and you and I have kids are a little bit older, not a lot older, than this age group. But I could use that with my 2427 3134 year olds too. I remember when I was a new parent, right? My biggest struggle was, and I had, I’ve had some conversations like that with my son this year, you know, as he’s navigating, like, yeah, it’s hard period, right, right? Like, going and leaning that. We talk about that with jobs all the time. Like, if we I always say to parents, like, think of. How you talk about your work life, right? Is it always negative, or do you not share the challenges of working through a difficult co worker or a boss who maybe is being too demanding, because we set up these expectations of a highlight reel that’s just not accurate, and then our kids will not do well through the struggle, right?

Andrea Malkin Brenner 25:20
And that’s also the world we live in, right? The perfect life on Instagram. It’s really tough. We do need to show them at all different ages of our life, where, where those challenges were, where we made mistakes, right, and where we grew from those mistakes. I think that’s crucial.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 25:36
Also, this has been so good. Is there anything that we’re missing that you wanted to get in? I just want to be

Andrea Malkin Brenner 25:41
you know, one thing that that I actually wrote down, that I wanted to make sure I said, was this kind of awkward dance, this balance between my baby is home with not babying your adult child so hard. I know it is so hard, and when they’re your kids have been on their own, and especially a kid that has really been challenged by living independently, I would tell the parents, don’t rush to do their laundry, don’t clean up after them in the same way you may have when they were younger, even though you get something out of that caretaking because you love welcoming them home, if you’re going to do anything, that’s going to set them back in terms of living independently. That doesn’t mean don’t make their favorite foods or things like that, but just kind of check in, you know, if they were struggling, for example, to do laundry, is it really a good idea for them to do for you to do laundry for them, or maybe you do it with them, or you talk to them while they’re doing it right? And so really kind of think, because we don’t want that little time home as any bit of a regression, yeah, yeah.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 26:40
Like a setback. That’s such great advice, because we do, like, they walk the door and you, you’re like, Oh, I mean, even when my son, daughter in law and grandson were visiting in August, I’m just like, I just want to do for you and love on you and give you a break and but helping can hurt sometimes, if it’s not channeled in the right

Andrea Malkin Brenner 27:02
way, especially when they’re it’s an 18 or 19 year old, yeah, yeah,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 27:07
absolutely, yes. Oh, this has been so good. So you are the master of curating conversations with your talking college decks. We will What’s your website? How

Andrea Malkin Brenner 27:19
to talking talkingcollege.com thank you so much. We’ll put it in the show

Lisa Marker-Robbins 27:24
notes, but it’s so easy to remember. Hopefully people will remember it. Andrea, I know we’ll have you back in the future. This was just a really great way to get us thinking appropriately about how to interact with not just first year freshmen, but our kids of all ages. You gave me some stuff that I can use with my 24 and 27 year olds around the table

Andrea Malkin Brenner 27:43
as well. Thank you for having me and happy holidays.

Unknown Speaker 27:47
You too. Bye.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 27:53
If the holidays and winter break with your teen or young adult now feel a little more doable. You’re welcome. I’m grateful for Andrea. She always brings such steady, research backed insight to normal messiness. If you want to keep building deeper connections with your young person year round, make sure you sign up for my newsletter at flourish, coachingco.com forward slash newsletter every week, when a new episode drops, I send parents a simple conversation cue you can use with your kids at the dinner table, in the car, or maybe in those rare moments when they actually become talkative and while you’re in resource mode, check out Andrea’s talking college cards. They make it easier to spark the real conversations that build trust and prepare your young person for a life on their own. We’ll link to everything in the show notes. And could you do me a favor if you are a regular listener of the show? I’ve got a request for a little holiday gift for me. It would personally mean the world to me if you would rate or review the podcast wherever you listen. Thank you for listening, and I’ll see you again next time you

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