#186 College May Not Be the Next Step—Here’s How to Know with Joanna Lilley Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 0:49
Is your teen truly ready for college or just going through the motions? It’s easy to miss red flags that signal a student may not be prepared for the realities of college life, and that gap in readiness can quickly become costly, not just in money and time, but in emotional well being and long term confidence. In this episode, I’m joined by Joanna Lilly, a therapeutic consultant who specializes in helping young adults navigate the messy middle between high school and college, or alternatives to college altogether, drawing on her extensive work with students who have hit roadblocks on campus, Joanna shares how to proactively assess readiness, identify the life skills teens need before leaving home and build resilience before crisis hits. We dive into why students should curate meaningful experiences before enrolling, what parents can do if they’re sensing hesitation or struggle, and how to approach gap years or deferrals with intention. You’ll also hear why having a neutral third party like a therapist or coach can be a game changer for both student and parent. If you’re wrestling with questions about whether your teen is truly ready or worried you’ve already missed something. This conversation will leave you feeling more equipped and empowered. I’m Lisa marker Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity a flourish coaching production. Let’s dive right in to a great conversation.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 2:20
Joanna Lily, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Lisa. I’m excited to do this, and I don’t know what our timing is going to be, but we’re both on each other’s shows because we love supporting this age group of high school, early 20s, and so we’re like, oh, it makes sense to do two episodes. This is gonna be fun and a very different episode than what we did over on your show. So we’ll get a link to that episode in the show notes if people want to get another dose of us, if they aren’t worn out from us, right? So, you know, I recently posted an Instagram story that I reframed as I’m on a mission to banish the word college dropout, or the phrase college dropout. And it got a lot of positive response. I figured it might, and I just said I’m on a mission to get rid of that, because it feels like very full of shame. And when people are in a state of shame, I don’t think that teens and 20 somethings are very open to getting the support that might benefit them. And I know in your role as a consultant, you are often working in a reactive mode, even though you would love to be in a proactive mode. And with that said, you’re more you’re more in that reactive mode. So you’ve learned some lessons from that. Tell us, first of all, a little bit about what you

Joanna Lilley 3:50
do. Yeah, hi, I’m a therapeutic consultant that works with young adults, like you said, the majority of which are in a reactive state. Honestly, I started my consulting practice for that exact student population that you were just describing. I won’t call them college dropouts, but it was the student that was not doing well on campus, and usually that shows up because their grades all of a sudden drop, and that’s not indicative of their academic performance, but it’s everything else, right? It’s the like mental health, or the, you know, something’s going on in the family, or there’s financial stress, or there they’ve had their first trauma, or grief, you know, like profound grief. All that is to say that was me working in higher education a long time ago, it feels like and wanting to help this student population, but basically having my hands tied working for a specific institution where my job literally was to retain students, but morally, I was finding myself having these conversations it’s okay to take a break. From college, in fact, why don’t we do it now, when you’re identifying that you’re struggling, rather than waiting until the university identifies you as you know, academically suspended or something else more traumatic happens, and you have to take a leave and kind of back to your comment. And then I’ll stop talking for a second. Is that all of my clients are dealing with shame. So anybody in that reactive state it is. It’s about their identity. Here, I was planning to be this college student at this you know, everything, I’ve poured everything into this bucket of this identity of who I am at this college, and now all of a sudden, I’m not there, right? Or I can’t be there. And so it takes and especially depending on the family pressure which exists, often it does it. It is so much work for me to help that young person understand that that’s that experience on that college campus, that’s not who they are, but it’s what happened. So there’s just a difference in really trying to like, differentiate that that experience might have sucked, but realistically you are, you are not a failure,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 6:12
right? You don’t suck. Experience sucked, you don’t suck, right? Yeah, you know, I even, when I was doing that Instagram story, I even said, like, I have no problem with somebody leaving college if it’s an informed decision rooted in, like, what’s best for their path. Now I’m coming at it from a career coaching standpoint, right? Because that’s, that’s my end goal is I want to support teens and 20 somethings in getting into a thriving future out of their parents home launch successfully, but with career confidence so they can stand on their own two feet. And so you’re kind of coming in before me. So what we really want to talk about today is, in an ideal world, you’d be working proactively with people just as I would be working proactively, I wouldn’t be working with recent college graduates who have graduated with a degree and don’t know what they’re going to do with it. So I’m I hope I keep serving younger and younger and younger, you know, 15 and up. So yeah, and we do a lot of the high school students, but through your reactive work, it’s helped you kind of identify proactively what should be true before we do this post high school graduation piece, yeah, and you’ve you’ve got five tasks that you’ve identified that these teens need to be able to do before you feel like they’re ready for whatever that step might be. What are those five or I mean, maybe we’re taking one at a time. Yeah, let’s,

Joanna Lilley 7:49
let’s take one at a time, because honestly, I do feel like here, here’s the plug for you, quite honestly, in the work that you do, is that a lot of young people don’t understand that going to college is optional education, like future education. And so there really is this opportunity for demystifying what being in college really means, and a part of that, which is like this, aha, realization, oh my gosh. Why am I going to college if high school was hard or not fun. Hey, maybe taking a break from a like structured educational system is okay. Again. College isn’t going anywhere. But I say all this, and a part of that is you have to know what you want to do. And I’m not saying every 18 year old needs to know what they’re going to do. In fact, that’s probably not realistic, but you have to have some experiences figuring out what you’re really interested in. Because, again, if I just

Lisa Marker-Robbins 8:45
you’re speaking all my lovely, right? Yeah, obviously. I mean, as I’m hearing this, you know, first of all, I say it’s okay for your kid to be college curious, or even career confident, like they want to go direct to employment. I spent December of 24 through March of 25 revising our course. You know, we’ve had this course since early or late 2020 and I used to do this work all just one on one, but when I was revising it, one of the things I did is module five. We created a choose your own adventure. And the Choose Your Own Adventure piece is Lesson Two is an A, B, C or D, and it’s what educational path do you aspire to that dictates which adventure you choose when you get to that module of our course. And it really is about, you know, am I four year college bound, two year college bound, and then we go through all these other alternative pathways that are 100% okay? And so I always say, like, it in module four, we’re, like, curating experiences, because you can’t know if you don’t curate some. Experiences. So with that in mind, then if we know what the job is, then let’s figure out the job first, then figure out how we’re going to get there. And some kids might go well, period, my me, my daughter’s in sales. She didn’t need a four year degree to go in sales, but she chose that path as an informed decision. So I love the messaging of like, it’s okay not to go to college, yeah. And what I would I’m curious, when you’re working with a student who thought they might go to college, or their parents were confident they were going to go to college, and they take a pause and they try to figure some stuff out, what percentage of kids ultimately end up going to college. Oh, 100%

Joanna Lilley 10:43
I mean, this is anecdotal, so just obviously, the clients that I work with, but anybody that falls within that proactive space, and let me just like for parents to understand this fully, we’re talking about high school seniors that have gone through the college admission process, literally from, you know, October through, they’ve gotten their acceptance letters. They’ve decided on a school now that they’ve been admitted, but they’ve taken the time thoughtfully to make that decision. Hey, I’m going to defer and here’s why, right? So there’s got to be reasoning. And then every single one of those students, which, again, fills my bucket, because this is the like crate we’re avoiding what could potentially be a disastrous situation, because the parents identified it, and the student identified, hey, I’m just not ready. Certainly that college believes that I’m ready to be there, but like, there’s something in my gut that’s telling me I’m not, I’m not fully ready to be like, all in so all that is to say they’re working with me to come up with a plan, right? What are we doing? What are we doing for the summer? What are we doing for the fall? What are we doing for the spring and the following summer? Like, it’s a full 12 months of like, What’s What do you want to get out

Lisa Marker-Robbins 12:00
of so you’re like, you’re like, Okay, you might not have had those experiences, and you might not feel like you’re red. We might have identified you’re not ready yet for a variety of reasons. I know you deal with students who have had some mental health struggles, some addiction issues, all very common things with this age group while they’re just trying to figure out life. So task one is, let’s know where we’re going by getting some experiences. Okay, so what’s the second thing that you found is a hallmark of what needs to happen for somebody to be ready.

Joanna Lilley 12:36
There’s got to be some translatable like in those experiences, right? Whether it’s internship, job, volunteering or even taking a college class, whether it’s for credit or you’re just auditing, or you Yeah, again, I say this with like a little asterisk. Obviously, every college that is a four year school that you’ve deferred is very specific in what it is that a student can or cannot do during that deferred time period. So obviously, pay attention to that. Don’t listen to all of my advice in this work, in this space. But for some students, if a part of their concern, especially around executive functioning, I feel like that’s a pretty common issue that parents are like, they just really struggle with time management or organization or task completion, and this was a big part of like me as a parent. This is what they’re saying to me. I’ve been helping manage my child all the way through to high school graduation. So a part of why they need to like learn to do this on their own is also our acceptance as a parenting unit on this person is ready to be independent, and we don’t have to manage their their academic side of things, right? Whether they’re at a local school or not.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 13:49
Yeah, I wanted to jump in real quick, just from a college counseling standpoint, because you worked in higher ed. I was a college counselor. Yeah, check if you think you’re going to defer, or you’re going to go do something else before you go to college. Once you’ve graduated high school, dual enrollments off the table, you’re out of high school, you can’t do community college classes to get credit, because then if you’ve taken a lot of institutions, if you’ve taken college level coursework, then you are no longer considered a first time freshman, which could mean you’re doing a transfer application. You could potentially lose scholarships, things like that. So I know you’re you’re giving, like, general advice, specifically for individual families. And I know you’ve got individuals you work with. We have individuals we work with. Then we dial down and go, Okay, what are the policies are in place? But you’ve really got to check that however, like we talk about in module four of our course, when we’re doing the curated experiences one type of course to get like, you could go do something on Coursera. Or a platform like that, where they actually have college level coursework in all sorts of different areas of interest, and you’re not necessarily earning grades and transcript and credit and things like that, but it gives you a dose of what it means to learn at a college level,

Joanna Lilley 15:18
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, you’re if it’s only a part of that, like, you know, gap experience, yeah, if that ends up being a priority. And I think that I often see that for the described parents and the young adult that I was just kind of referencing where it’s, like, you know, it almost feels characteristic to where it’s the mom saying I was the one that was constantly making sure, you know, my kid was up for school, that they had their work done, that I was, like, on top of making sure that they were passing. I mean, it’s, there’s heavy involvement. But again, to your point, my the caseload that I’m working with, oftentimes, they were, you know, at some point, took a break in high school, potentially went to some sort of treatment program or therapeutic boarding school. And oftentimes, they come to me again, proactively, hey, we’ve had this interruption academically, which we also identify kind of puts us in a, you know, behind everybody else kind of field in a like, social, emotional and mental kind of maturity perspective. And so again, when I’m speaking with parents, that’s great, but it’s, it’s really excites me when I’m speaking with the student, and they’re the ones being able to identify, yeah, I got into this great school, and I’m looking forward to being an engineer, because that’s the program that I’m in. But I really need to take some time right now, over the next nine plus months, having these intentional experiences that are really building up the self efficacy, the autonomy, the executive functioning skills, and the demonstrated just evidence of maturity for that young person, which then translates to them being ready to be a college student and parents feeling like they’re ready to be a parent of a college student,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 17:13
right? It’s interesting, if you it’s so common that parents are waking their kids up for school, and so if you’re a parent and you’re listening to this, and you still have a teen and in your house, like, Don’t wake them up for their job for school, like, maybe the best thing that could happen to them is they get fired from a part time job, right? Yeah, or they can’t play in the football game because they didn’t. I mean, I was guilty with my oldest of doing too much waking up when he was in high school for sure. Yeah, okay, what are some other hallmarks?

Joanna Lilley 17:47
I think, actually, I’m just gonna piggyback off of that, just in general. I think a part of us understanding whether or not our student will be able to survive, because that’s really what it is. College is an experience out of the home for the first time, like really navigating new new dynamics, new relationships, new situations, new experiences, all the above. If your child has never had the opportunity to experience any adversity, like you said, natural consequences, potentially losing a job or failing a class, or, you know, like losing a friend, whatever the case may be, that’s going to be tremendously harder for them when they land on a college campus. Because, let’s just be real, it almost feels like there is, well, let me back up the reactive students that I work with, more often than not, a part of that internalized shame for their from their academic experience is because they experience their first low grades, or, you Know, they weren’t successful with their roommate or relationships, or they pledged for some sort of Greek organization, and they didn’t get accepted. So these rejections, experiencing for the first time, you need to be able to handle rejection, because that’s just human nature. We’re not nothing is seamless or linear or without adversity. And so you are going to do poorly on some sort of college exam. And so we got to be ready for it. And if a part of that is oh my gosh, I am a failure. Rather than shoot, I just failed that assignment. I got to figure out how to study differently next time. Like that’s the kind of stuff that is going to matter in hindsight in high school, that will build that resilience for college.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 19:48
You know, it’s interesting, because for most kiddos, most teens and and young adults, or, you know, or late teens, some sort of adversity. Usually comes right, whether it’s socially, whether it’s academically, occasionally, though, and I’ve been doing this for working with this age group for over 30 years, but occasionally, there is such a superstar that that kid school was a breeze all the way through like and I don’t get this AP Calc, BC, multi variable calculus, like, that’s so far beyond me. But there are kiddos for whom academically it was a breeze. They had solid friendships. And, you know, boy friendships are easier than girlfriends, so maybe there’s a gender thing, you know, there, I don’t know, not going to get into that debate, who’s got it harder, who’s easier? But there is the occasional kiddo that really doesn’t have adversity, you know, like my kids had to navigate, like we’re a divorced family, and we have a bonus family that’s really well blended. We’ve been together for over a decade. So the my kids all had all kinds of different things, but for that occasional child, if a parent’s listening to this saying, my kid hasn’t had that, legitimately hasn’t had it. It’s rare, but it does happen. How could a parent in your in your understanding of what you’ve done. Help their kid be prepared for when adversity comes, because it will come right, even if their kid hasn’t had adversity in high school.

Joanna Lilley 21:32
Yeah, I think the the two things come to mind, one, take advantage of the summer before college as an opportunity for life lessons to be learned. So if you’re the parent who has done a lot for your child, start to peel back. Let them wake themselves up. And if they end up getting reprimanded at work like let them let that be learned and lived experience. And then the other piece too is, I think it’s helpful to have somebody that’s not a family member, whether it’s a therapist or a coach. I mean, I know that a lot of colleges really promote whatever types of resources they have on campus. I think that’s great to know what would exist on on the actual college campus that you’re looking at, but also just full transparency, I think it’s helpful to actually have, like, a resource that’s not tied to the school. So if, again, if it’s a therapist or a coach, somebody that the student can actually start working with a little bit before college begins, so that they can build rapport, establish trust, and then ideally, that student is able to be honest and vulnerable with the coach or therapists. Again, non judgmental around let’s, let’s prepare for this. What happens if a lot of those scenarios, and also, you’re getting this kind of neutral party that’s really helping the student understand, here’s where you’re gonna see things pop up, right? Roommate, issues, you know, having issues with a professor, not doing well on a group assignment. You know, whatever the case may be, homesickness, even right, like you’re experiencing a lot of things that are actually pretty common, but to have a neutral party that does not, you know, I love when parents are resources for their young adults, and you’re still a parent, so there’s always this it, yeah, it’s a parent child dynamic that honestly ends up kind of pulling on your heart strings for a parent. And sometimes you end up giving advice where really advice is not what your student is looking for. They’re just looking for comfort, right? So like asking that

Lisa Marker-Robbins 23:40
that’s a big thing. We actually measure. We give everybody in our course the Berkman assessment. And you can tell from a particular measurement on their Berkman if it’s an individual that tends to want a CO problem solver with them, or just a listening ear. And I think parents so often are wanting to jump into that I’ve learned at times, and I don’t do this perfectly, but to say to my you know now adult kids, our kids are all 24 to 34 but to say to them, like, are you just needing an event, or do you want some input, right? And I remember about two summers ago, my now 27 year old, he called me and and he was he was going, and I thought, I didn’t ask, and I just jumped in. And he’s learned through through me asking that question. He’s like, just call an event. And then, actually, later in that same conversation, he’s like, Okay, but what do you think after he got it all out, right? So, but just asking that question,

Joanna Lilley 24:49
yeah, so

Lisa Marker-Robbins 24:50
okay, if you have, like, I can imagine that people reach out to you. And this happens to me a lot where it’s the parent. Parent has that inkling of, like, maybe we’re not ready, and there’s all this peer pressure, like, everybody’s doing XYZ after school. There’s all this peer pressure. There’s all these societal expectations to have it together. I frequently have parents saying, like, well, you know this is going on over here, and I’m just not sure, and we have a conversation, but the kid is not yet on board with that. I bet it’s probably rare that the kids saying, I’m not ready, and then parents like, No, we’re still gonna go. How do you advice for parents that like are in that kind of messy middle in between space, about how to navigate that in a really healthy way.

Joanna Lilley 25:44
Yeah, the this conversation is happens more frequently, and it’s usually around the like, April time period, right? Because it’s like, oh my gosh, we’re almost ready for that commit date. And like, we’re as parents, getting nervous about this idea of commitment, again, often reflective of parent that’s saying, hey, my child thinks that they’re ready, but they’re clearly not in tune with what it means to actually be a college student. So all that is to say, the two biggest pieces of information that I have gently with parents, it’s okay to be nervous, right? Like, one of the things is, like, is this just parental anxiety? Are you just worried about your kid growing up? Like, just not like a reality check, but like a true gut check? Is this just you, right? And so making sure that we have an understanding of you, know? Is this just me really trying to assess that for the parent. The other piece is also, I’m actually going to make it three. But the second piece is, as a parent, you are in control. So unless your child got a full ride scholarship and there’s no financial commitment for the parent at the end of the day, you do have the power of actually influencing whether or not you feel comfortable paying for your student’s education. Now I’m really clear with parents and saying the only reason that you would be assertive in this process is if you are very fearful of your child not being okay when they go off the case. It’s a safety issue. It’s a safety issue, right? Like, again, from a mental health perspective, from an increase in substance use, from a like, just a true disconnect around their understanding of like, you’re going to college, which means you have to actually go to class, you have to do your assignments, you have to do school work. So if you hear your child really, just like not showing up in a way that makes you feel comfortable again, from a safety perspective, for them being out of the home on a college campus, then I would, that’s when I would kind of be a little bit louder. But the third part too, which is it kind of, it’s in that same vein, but it’s more along the lines of, there’s, there’s something about kind of like a socially outward child, right? Like you’ve got the one who just cares about the college life other than the academic side of things, where you’re just like, Okay, you’re gonna have too much fun, and I’m gonna spend some money on this, where it’s also a question mark for a parent. Is, again, if you’ve got a young adult who has not experienced any type of distress in high school from a fragility standpoint. As a parent, if your gut is telling you, I don’t think my kid should go not right now. I’m not saying not ever, just like right now, you’ve got to build some sort of distress tolerance. You’ve got to get some like coping skills on how to handle adversity. That’s where I would be a lot more of a squeaky wheel as a parent in having an intentional conversation with your young adult. Hey, I am worried about you being a student on on this campus. Can we just have a conversation about how you would handle, you know, any type of distress, because, again, the fragility piece is a little bit more tied to like, if they’ve never experienced adversity, and it could potentially be a serious mental health crisis. That’s as a parent, where I would be a little bit more assertive around being unsure of whether or not I would actually pay for them to go to

Lisa Marker-Robbins 29:24
school. I have also found, though, that sometimes parents underestimate what their kids actually can do when given the chance. And so let’s just as we’re wrapping up, I want to throw this last question out to you, if a kid, if the family then decides, like, okay, maybe I as mom and am overreacting or whatever, and the kid really, and I, I know of kids who have had full rides, not only full rides, but also being cut a check by the university that offsets housing. And the kid has. Some savings and took the federal student loan. And I’ve known a kid like that who actually still went even the parents said it was not a good idea, and there was no way to stop them, because they legally are an adult, and they were able to pull it off. And it did not end well, but then the student recovered, and I’m happy to say, is a late 20 something doing really, really well. So let’s hold space for that. But if, if you’re having these conversations, and then they, they decide, You know what, Nope, we’re going to go ahead and go, but we’ve got whether the parent is justifiably nervous or not justifiably nervous. What’s your recommended like, cadence of check ins and how to be sure that they really are okay. If you’ve got some concerns when they once they get on campus without being too overbearing and we Yeah, the apartment building next door to the campus,

Joanna Lilley 30:55
please don’t do that. Yeah, I think the cadence is going to be unique to every parent and child based on what makes sense. And so I will say that whatever feels comfortable, though, have that conversation before the school semester starts. Hey, yeah, you’re going off to school. I mean, depending on how far away they are, whatever the case may be, right? If they’re far enough away where parents aren’t visiting frequently, or the young adults not coming home. We expect to communicate with you at least x amount of times a week, please. You know, we could even, I have some families that will even do, like, set scheduled calls. Hey, we’re going to do a, you know, FaceTime on Sunday afternoons. Everybody’s on. It’s not just you, you know, as a student, it’s the whole family. So I would actually say, just have the conversation ahead of time and kind of figure it out. I think the other thing that’s really important is, as a parent, always extend the opportunity to check in. Hey, I noticed that I haven’t heard from you or, you know, next, last time we did a FaceTime call, you looked a little tired, like just wanted to make sure you’re okay. So continue to show some sort of like, extended arm for support, offering, again, open communication and dialog. But realistically, the only way that you’ll know as a parent how your student did is at the end of the semester. It’s true.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 32:23
No, I did not monitor my kids grades throughout the semester. I would ask them, How are how are you doing? And I would trust that they were telling me. And sometimes I got accurate information, sometimes I did not, but I would not pay the next semester’s tuition bill or housing bill until I saw the grades from the current semester. And that was just our deal. Like, if I’m going to help fund this, yeah, you’ve got time to like, if you got a wonky start or you had a bad exam, you’ve got time to get it together. But we had an agreement of, you know, they had to have a 3.0 or above for me to continue paying, and in them not to be on the hook for any tuition. And I would say, show it to me at the end of the semester, and I’ll pay the next semester. And that, as far as, like, when payments were doing, I mean, that always worked out just fine, like I wasn’t, you know, behind the eight ball or anything like that.

Joanna Lilley 33:22
Yeah, I love that plan. I mean, that’s, I just

Lisa Marker-Robbins 33:26
the practical. I mean, it’s what works. It’s not necessarily going to be exactly what works for every family, but I really don’t think that you should be checking your kids grades all the time. I

Joanna Lilley 33:36
completely agree, but I do think you it’s a trust but verify kind of situation well, and if you’re writing the

Lisa Marker-Robbins 33:42
check right, and then if they give you like a reason not to trust then okay, revisit what your agreement is, then right? But you know what hold space for the fact that they may surprise you. I remember when our youngest went off to college and she was only 20 minutes away, right? She went to the University of Cincinnati. I actually had encouraged her to look farther away, but she decided to stay here. And, you know, it ended up being the CO they were the COVID kids. They graduated high school in 2020 so it worked out fine, but I she said, like, six weeks, we’re not going to see each other or talk for six weeks. And I said, okay, and or not. I mean, we would text, but she didn’t want to see me, you know, she didn’t want me showing up at the campus. And a week in, she sent me a text. She goes, I can see from your location that you are down here. I think you had a speaking event. Can you come get me and can we run to Kroger? And I was like, Heck, yeah. So they may surprise you, parents, so don’t, don’t assume that you won’t hear from them. Well, Joanna, if you’ve got anybody listening today, who says we want to be proactive with this? Or, oh my goodness, we’re in the messy middle. Or, hey, something happened. In a reactive state. How do they find out more about working with you?

Joanna Lilley 35:05
Best way is to just stumble upon my website, which is www dot Lilly consulting, and that’s L, L, E, y consulting.com, I’ve got tons of articles written. I’ve got a podcast as well, like you said, which you’ve been a guest on, and so lots of information, honestly, where I think parents even just find stuff on the site which provides them the information that they need. Otherwise, you can actually just contact me through the website. Too.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 35:34
Awesome. Thank you for making the time to be on today. Thanks for having me. You as Joanna shared, college readiness is about so much more than academics. It’s about emotional resilience, independence and clarity of purpose, whether your teen is gearing up for move in day or you’re still wondering if a gap year might be the better path taking time now for intentional planning can prevent pain later. If you want more tools and resources to support your teen or young adult as they prepare for what’s next, be sure to watch our complimentary video at flourish coachingco.com forward slash video is packed with insights to help you feel confident in your role, while empowering your student to launch with clarity. Thank you for joining me, and before next time, if this episode helped your family, please take a moment to follow rate and review the show so others can receive the same support and keep taking those small, intentional steps that lead to big clarity. You

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