#195 Modern Manners that Boost Confidence & Career Readiness with Brooke Romney Transcript

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED TRANSCRIPT… PLEASE FORGIVE THE TYPOS & GRAMMAR! xo-Lisa.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 1:03
Do you worry that as your young person takes their first small professional steps, they might not come off as polished, or maybe they’ll unintentionally make a misstep? Small etiquette skills make a big difference, especially when first impressions can open doors to internships, mentors and future jobs. I’m thrilled to have Modern Manners coach Brooke Romney, author of the best selling books Modern Manners for teens, on the podcast today, Brooke shares a practical framework for Modern Manners in three really simple buckets, social, physical and relationship, so your child can feel calm and capable in real world situations, you’ll hear simple ways to start a conversation by observing and then asking, keeping it balanced by throwing the ball back and read the room so interactions can feel well natural. We also cover when to text versus email, what to wear for an office visit or zoom, how to ask about dress codes and parking and the thank you touches that leave a lasting impression for parents and educators. Brooke offers doable coaching tips and weekly micro habits that build confidence without adding stress to already packed schedules. I’m Lisa marker Robbins, and I want to welcome you to College and Career Clarity a flourish coaching production, let’s dive right in to a great conversation.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 2:30
Brooke, welcome to the show.

Brooke Romney 2:33
Thank you so much, Lisa, I love how you’re helping families be prepared for college and careers. That’s an amazing service.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 2:39
Thank you. Well, as you know, because you’ve launched a few kiddos yourself, yes, it can be a scary phase, even for the student and the parent, both of them, not just the kids. And as we’re working with this age group, and we’re talking to them about beginning to connect professionally, to ask for job shadows and informational interviews and go into job interviews, it can be really scary. And as a manners expert that you are, I thought this will be a fun tips and tricks and what mistakes to avoid as we’re beginning to make those connections. I love it. So how do you define manners? Let’s start with that, because I sometimes find I’m in wedding planning mode with my daughter, right? Oh, exciting. Very exciting. And there’s these moments where, like, I’ll say something, and she’ll be like, Mom, that’s not how it’s done. And I’ll go, Oh, okay. And I’ve even found myself, at times googling wedding etiquette, and I’m like, Oh, well, what’s you know, considered acceptable? Get etiquette has changed a little bit. So I don’t know if manners has evolved like that, or if manners are the same. So how do we define manners?

Brooke Romney 3:56
Well, my books are Modern Manners, because I actually believe that a lot of things have evolved, and for me, manners are tools to help you be aware, confident, connected and kind. So I’m less concerned though it it may be important in a business lunch, about which fork you use, and I’m more concerned about how you’re relating to the people around you.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 4:18
I love that, so I you know it’s that’s interesting, that you say that connected part and how you’re doing that, I find one of the mistakes that students, students, young adults, can make in this space is when they begin to connect. They begin to network. They’re so worried about coming off as interesting that they forget the connection piece and to focus on being interested,

Brooke Romney 4:47
such a good reminder. One of the things that I think is so important for kids of these ages to understand, you know, holistically, is that there is never a better time for you to ask for free. Waivers from adults during these years. Yes, adults are so excited, and they are truly elated to be able to pass on knowledge, information and connections. And when someone is proactive and someone that an adult enjoys helping connect to others, it is such a win for both parties. So as you were saying. You know, a lot of these students are very nervous and they’re not quite sure, and they don’t have the confidence yet to do this. I just want to remind them that there’s never a better time for you to ask for favors. By the time you you know, by the time you enter your adulthood, people are much less willing to just say, Sure, I would love to do you a favor. I would love to introduce you to this person. And so really taking advantage of that time to say, Hey, I am new at this and I am interested in what you’re doing. Would you be willing to, can I buy you lunch and can I hear about your profession? Or would you be willing to let me come and just see what you do all day, every day, having teenagers and young adults who are engaged and interested in their lives and in the lives of others. I think it’s such an easy yes for an adult.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 6:06
I find that as well, especially if you know we’re what we do in module four of our course is curate real world experiences, and in that is the informational interviews job shadows. And I say to kids all the time, if somebody loves their job, they are usually a raving fan and want to share all the great things about it. So now do you here’s a question for you. Do you want the student to approach via phone, email, text message? When it comes to Modern Manners, we have all these modern tools in front of us. What do you think is the best way for them to start to connect? I think it

Brooke Romney 6:48
kind of depends on how close that relationship is. Is it if it’s someone that you’ve grown up with and you have their phone number like a very kind text, I think works really well. If it’s someone that you’re reaching out to, that maybe you don’t have a lot of connections with I think an email is a wonderful way to go to, you know, to give that person a chance to decide how that relationship is going to move forward. But hey, if it, if it’s your neighbor two doors down the street that you’ve known since you were a kid, I think a text or even something in person, when you see them saying, I am so interested in being an engineer, would you have time in the next week or so for me to learn more, and then let them decide how that learning more might happen.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 7:26
I like always starting with that informational interview, because it’s a conversation without a big commitment, right, right, right. We try to give students templates, because I think that first ask, it takes courage, but I try to remind them that what takes courage on the inside often just looks like confidence on the outside, nobody knows that you’re nervous with it as you’re talking to them about okay, whatever mode seems natural is okay. What about wording things like that?

Brooke Romney 7:59
Well, for me, I think it’s always wonderful for you to show, like you said, for you to show interest in them. And so if you can start it off by kind of greasing the wheels with, you know, let’s say you want to learn about becoming a doctor, and you can say something like, my dad said you are the most incredible pediatric caregiver that he’s ever worked with. I’m really interested in pediatrics. Would you have time? I love being able to turn the conversation, like you said, into being interested in someone else, instead of it being all about you.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 8:35
Okay, so these are about like, I know you say there’s really three different kinds of manners, right, physical relationship and social so what we’re talking about would go in the social manners bucket. Is that right? Yes, yes. Okay, what else goes in the social manners bucket? Because I do think that’s a big one, especially in the initial connection piece.

Brooke Romney 8:57
Yeah, another social manner that I really love to help kids understand is how to start a conversation. Sometimes the person you are talking to might be really wonderful at it, and sometimes they might need a little help too. And so I have a little formula that I think works really well. It’s make an observation and then ask a question. And so that works for almost any situation, whether you’re trying to become friends with the girl sitting next to you in class, or whether you’re looking for a connection with someone that you might use in a professional setting. So it’s pretty easy. You can go with what they’re wearing, you can go with the job they have. You can go with a connection that you can draw from, even if it’s something that you’ve seen. I listened to you on a podcast recently, I loved what you said about this. Can you tell me more? Right? Make an off innovation and then ask a question. So that’s another social manner that is really useful, especially in a conversation. Setting another one that I love is just a reminder to throw the ball back. Back, if you are with someone in a conversation and they ask you a question, you can answer that question and then ask that question or another question, like a follow up question, and return to the person that just asked you that question. So conversation should never be one sided. They should be as close to 5050, as we can and and we all have responsibility in that.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 10:19
I think when an individual, even, and I love that you said, these adults can not always be comfortable with conversation, so just because you’re nervous doesn’t mean that they aren’t nervous or a little uncomfortable as well. To focus on this back and forth, because when you’re nervous, I think it can be easy to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and lose sight. Do you have any tips for how you can try to balance that 5050? Yeah.

Brooke Romney 10:48
I think, honestly, it’s just being aware. So we’ve all been there, you and I both have been there. And we do this for professionally, right where sometimes you’ll walk away from someone, you’ll think, wow, I just talked the whole time. Or, Wow, that person did not ask me one question. I just asked 46 questions, and they never asked one and so I think this is something that you can start practicing right like, as soon as you’re 15, how am I doing in this? Like, just evaluate yourself after conversations and with all social skills. The more you do it, if you’re self aware, the better you get at it. And so if you’ve walked away from a conversation, man, I just talked the whole time, then maybe it’s time for you to think, what are some go to questions? And that’s another social norm that I’m I really like to help kids understand is how if you go to questions that work for any situation, or maybe work, at least with an adult, or maybe some that work with teenagers, so that you can make sure you’re balancing things better. Next time,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 11:46
one of the students in our course, he was recently telling he came in hot, and he’s like, I’m so excited. My uncle, who is very well connected. He was thinking, you know, like, this is great. My uncle is so well connected, and he’s willing to introduce me. This is a recent college grad that we have in the course. He’s willing to introduce me to some people to network, to connect. And I said, Oh, that’s great. And he was telling me, like, what High Flyers these people would be, and how they’d be such great connections. And I said, Okay, he’s ready to run with it. I said, Well, so what are you gonna ask them? And he’s like, I don’t know, and I I reminded him how valuable people’s time is, so that he probably only gets one chance. You know, we always hear you only get one chance to make a first impression. I do think you can recover from things. And people offer grace. And to your point, they offer a little bit more grace to younger people than maybe to other adults. But I said to him, let’s prep specifically. Find go on LinkedIn, find out what they do, find out what they where they went to school, so that you’re asking targeted questions. So it’s easy and natural to be interested, and it’s okay to take your notes in, especially when it’s something professional, right? Absolutely. I mean, you’re not going to sit down at a lunch table in high school and take out notes, but you can do this. Is there anything else that goes in that social manners bucket that you would say?

Brooke Romney 13:15
I also really love to advocate for kids and adults to learn how to read the room, so pay attention to some of their social cues. If they if they seem hesitant to go down a specific road or a specific topic, it’s important to respect that if it looks like they are ready to wrap things up, if they’re checking their phone, if they’re, you know, putting their food away, whatever that is just being really respectful. I think reading the room is just an important skill, and that’s another one that you can work on. Right? We don’t want to, we don’t want to make people feel uncomfortable. We don’t want to make them feel embarrassed. We don’t want to bring up topics that maybe wouldn’t be the best for us to talk about, knowing things that you can steer, steer clear from you might not want to say, well, I saw that you just got fired from your last job. What happened? Right? Like, just being very aware of who someone is and what they might enjoy talking to you about,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 14:12
that they what you just said about, read the room, and, you know, get the the social cues, like they’re wrapping up, and you can tell they want, they’re they’re done. They don’t have any more time, if you respect that. And then you come back from another for another Ask later, because I always say, start with an informational interview. Then if it went well and you’re finding that you’re still interested in that job, you can circle back and say, Do you have somebody else you could introduce me to where I could have a similar conversation? Maybe you want somebody who’s farther along or newer in their career or going and asking for a job, Shadow half day, full day, whatever it might be. If you can do that, then they’re going to be more likely to give you another Yes, so you have another. Okay? Physical manners, relationship manners, I think physical manners for what we do. Feels like it’s next. So what falls in that bucket?

Brooke Romney 15:05
You know, these are simple things like a firm handshake, looking someone in the eye, keeping your phone put away and making sure it’s on. Do not disturb or silent if you’re speaking with someone, if you’re eating a meal with them, making sure you have your napkin in your lap, that you aren’t speaking with your mouth full, that you order something that won’t take away from the conversation, you know, something that’s simple, definitely when you’re leaving, letting somebody know like thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Those types of physical manners can go a long way, and oftentimes they’re not noticed until they’re not done. So when it’s going well, no one is probably necessarily going to notice, but when it’s not done well, it’s going to be something that they might pay attention to. I have a little story. I My husband is at his last job. He did a lot of hiring, and they had hired someone, and this person, when they came into the office, was wearing something that had an inappropriate saying on a piece of their clothing. And he was so surprised at how well that person had presented themselves, and then that choice to wear that piece of clothing, and it was a really good reminder that while it may not feel like a big deal to you, depending on how old you are or what is current, making sure that it feels appropriate to all age levels. So whatever you whatever words you’re saying, something happened with my mother in law. We were at a store, and the person that was helping us just decided to use some slang and some profanity. That was no big deal to him, but really turned my mother in law off. Yeah, and remembering that when we’re in a professional setting, our clothing, our words, all of that should be as professional as possible, as you get to know people, as you understand your corporate culture, as you become better friends with people, you can take cues from what works in that setting. But I always say, like, start at the highest level of what is appropriate, until you realize that maybe it’s more relaxed than you thought.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 17:30
I also tell students, if you’re going to go into sometimes these informational interviews are on Zoom, like we’re doing the podcast on Zoom, yeah. But if you’re going to go into the physical workplace, it’s okay to ask, what is a dress code? Right?

Speaker 1 17:46
Absolutely. I mean, much better, yes,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 17:49
just ask. Ask about the parking ahead of time, right? Those questions are okay to ask. I actually have a rule, no printed t shirt. So it’s funny that you that you jumped on the one where your husband was like, oh my goodness, I can believe that they wore that T shirt. Just don’t wear anything. No printed T shirts. Yeah.

Brooke Romney 18:09
Just as keep it as professional as possible. Think about like, if my, if the most proper grandma would say this was, like, a good choice. Then, like, that’s, let’s start there absolutely.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 18:20
And there are these days, I think, going back to the modern piece, that things are more relaxed in a lot of workplaces anyway, but filter it through, what would grandma

Brooke Romney 18:31
think? Yes, and no one is ever going to say, you know, let’s say you’re asking for an informational interview, or you’d like to job shadow someone no one is ever going to say cannot believe they wore a button up shirt. They will never say that. You know that that’s something like always err on the side of feeling more professional and put together and appropriate than you might need to be.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 18:55
Well, we always, you know, we’ve always heard that it may maybe, at least people our age. We’ve always heard dress for the job that you aspire to have, not the job that you do have, behave for the job that you aspire to have, not the job that you do have. So it kind of falls into this Modern Manners as well. Yes, so relationship manners, I mean these people that you’re doing informational interviews with or a quick job shadow, would you qualify that as a relationship? Is there or is that more like, I’m established in a job now, or I’m in an internship? And what do you put in that bucket?

Brooke Romney 19:33
Yeah, I would say like the social matters that we spoke about are probably great for just an interview, or, you know, like a discovery type, you know, moment together, but yeah, definitely the relationship matters. If you have an internship, if it’s your first job, even if you’re in a class with someone, I think those make a big difference. And you know, a few of those are doing your. Part, right and and maybe even more than your part. I think that comes off very quickly to people as do I want to continue this relationship with them or not, and whether or not you felt like someone they would want to work with again, keeping unkind thoughts to yourself, go in somewhere and be the positive person. Be the person that somebody says, Wow, I really enjoyed my time with them. It’s easy to bond over negative things, but that usually comes back to bite you, and so especially if you’re new, really sticking to things that you appreciate, that you’re positive, a willingness to say thank you as often as possible. I really appreciated that. Thank you so much for that feedback. You know, asking somebody for clarity, if they give you a job you’re not quite sure about, it’s better to ask a few questions than to come back doing something that was not what they expected. There’s so many that you know go back right even to the conversation having back and forth, conversation, relationship, manners, things like being inclusive. So if you are in a workspace, acknowledging each person that’s there, not just the boss or not just the person that you know, being willing to introduce yourself that goes so far, you’re going to be around people that you may have never met. And instead of sticking in the corner or waiting for someone else to make you feel comfortable, saying, Hey, I’m Brooke, I don’t think I’ve met you yet and and it’s so much easier than we make it out to be,

Lisa Marker-Robbins 21:32
I love it. A lot of our listeners are parents, or they’re others that are working with and supporting teens and young adults. So what you’ve done a great job of defining I love thinking about them in the three buckets, right? And I think for what we’re talking about in the order that we just said social, then physical, then relationship manners, talk to the adults in the room. How can they help facilitate the growth of manners in these three areas, with whether it’s their child or their student or someone they’re mentoring?

Brooke Romney 22:11
So the first thing that I think is really important is for adults to have a growth mindset about Modern Manners. I think it’s very easy to see a kid who just sort of gets it right. There are certain kids who just are so good at this naturally, and there’s kids who struggle and realizing that having a growth mindset as an adult about what someone can learn, about what someone can practice and what someone can become, is really important to not decide that someone is just not good at this or not good at that. So that’s my first tip, is to be really positive about the progress. The second tip is to acknowledge when things are going well. So instead of always just saying, hey, you know that didn’t really work, or how come you did that? Really build them up in the things that are going well. If you have just had a wonderful conversation with them, and they’ve done so well on the 5050 when they usually do not like tell them how impressed you were. Tell them what they’re doing right. It makes it so much easier to correct when there’s something that they’re doing wrong. And the third thing for me is I created the modern manners for teens because I needed something as a parent that made it really clear and concise, and I fully believe that our kids can get better at these social relationship and physical manners. And doing one a week has been truly life changing for kids, especially the ones that struggle a little bit more where it doesn’t come as naturally as a parent, if you’re working on one of the manners, really focusing on it for yourself, there’s a lot of adults, me included, that sometimes forget about these Modern Manners, pointing it out when they are doing it well. Also, like, if you’re watching a show together and you see someone doing it well, or somebody doing it not well, like, ooh, they did not read the room well. Did they, you know, things like that can be really impactful. One of the reasons I wrote the book and created it as it is, where it’s just kind of a stand up flip book, was because sometimes teens want to take things in on their own. Sometimes they don’t want everything to be a big talking lesson. Right now, my Modern Manners book is sitting in the bathroom, in my son’s bathroom, and I just go in and I flip it every couple days. We’ve already been through it a couple times together, and so this is just a little healthy reminder. One kind of cute example was my son, who’s now graduated, but one of the manners is to acknowledge adults, and he was picking up a girl to go on a date. He’d never met her family, and he went in and he said, You know, I shook their hand, I asked them a few questions, and then we left on our date. And after the date, this girl text him, and she said, Oh, my word. My parents love you. And he turned to. And he was like, Mom, the bar is low. Because he said it was just so simple. Like, what he did was so simple. He just acknowledged them, he introduced himself, he asked them a couple of questions, and then he left, you know, he said, I didn’t do anything that was amazing, but I think it’s a really good reminder of how understanding these small, nuanced manners can make a really big impression. Stand out absolutely and as parents, empowering your kids to feel that kind of confidence when they’re talking with adults or peers or teachers or prospective employers is awesome.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 25:35
When you were saying the thing about like you don’t always have to talk about it. Maybe get the book and put it out and just flip it every few days. Kids get very overwhelmed, particularly we’ve noticed when they’re when School’s in session. And so where I live, school just got back in. We’re going to put this episode out a little bit later. But you know, Monday through Friday, they have a lot going on. They’re in school for seven, eight hours a day. They’ve got lots of things going into their head that they have to remember. They’ve got extracurriculars or jobs or things like that. And one rule that we have, loosely, I use the word rule is, don’t ask your kids big questions about future planning. Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday, hold them from the week for the weekend, unless your student approaches you and says, Hey, I you know, I got this brochure in the mail, or I got these test scores back. And if you want to tie it in and they’ve brought it up, then it’s okay, but it doesn’t have, I agree with you. It does not have to always be a conversation, and we need to have those conversations when they’re open to having them.

Brooke Romney 26:47
Yeah. What a good what a good reminder for all of us.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 26:50
They so talk a little bit about your book. We were and I got to it in the intro, but not a lot describe your book. We understand that. It’s about Modern Manners, but yeah, kind of how you infuse it into daily life.

Brooke Romney 27:05
Yeah, we just have one modern manner each week. There’s 52 of them. I’ve got volume one and volume two. They go through the physical, social and relationship manners, and there’s a big manner on the front. And I should have brought the book with me, but it’s important for me that I have common language with my kids. So it gives you a common language, something just very simple, like pitch in, right? So we both understand what pitching in means. So it just relates what that means. It helps them understand why. You know, I believe that teens love to know what’s in it for me, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that at that stage of their life. And then it gives some examples of how you might do that, right? So for pitching in, it says things like, if dinner’s being prepared, ask if you can help set the table, if, if you’re at a party and it’s time to clean up, start putting away chairs, things that are just really simple, but really take our kids to the next level in the eyes of others, but not just that. I think it gives them some personal confidence. Even if your kid is not a straight A student, even if they are not the star of the school play, they start understanding who they are. They have value beyond what is on the outside, and they understand they’re just they’re a great person. They’re a person that others want around. They’re a person that people respect, their person that knows how to connect. To connect, and I think that makes a big difference in how they feel about themselves.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 28:26
I mean, it’s also building EQ, right? Yes, social capital. And those are things that when we look at employability, employers really want those communication skills, collaboration. They want intellectual curiosity. They want they want the people that can read the room. And so what you’re doing easily is translating into the work that we do. And so, you know, I probably need to do, like we do, a monthly Q and A I should do a monthly manners for our group that are in the course that we can focus on each month, like that would be a fun way to incorporate it, because here it’s really about incorporating it into your culture, right?

Brooke Romney 29:09
It really is so just it becomes a part of who you are. And I’ve watched it with with my kids and some other kids that I’ve seen that I know. Well, what used to be something that was so difficult, right? For my son, acknowledging adults is no longer difficult. It was something that was just he didn’t even have to think about it. It’s just already who he is. You know, my son went on a senior trip with another family, and they went to Lake Powell, which lots of boating and things like that. And one of the adults that was there said I would take him anytime on a trip, because he was so willing to just do the work that’s not something I had to like prep him about. And he to be clear, he doesn’t always do it at our own home, but he knows. But he knows how to do it. He knows that this thing that creates that emotional IQ, the social capital and and it feels good. When people are happy to have you around, whether that’s at home, at school, in the workforce, that does a lot for our kids own confidence.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 30:07
Yeah, I love it. Well, Brooke, this has been fantastic. Any anything that we missed, or any parting thoughts.

Brooke Romney 30:14
Well, I’m just so excited about the service that you give. Because I think another thing that is so critical is that when teens and young adults have adults in their life that love them and support them and cheer them on, you know, research shows that they grow to be more successful and not just in the outside ways, but on the inside. And I’m really grateful for people that are willing to mentor and help help our young adults and teens.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 30:39
Well, thanks. I know you have a great Instagram account, so that would be one place that we want to point people follow you is Brooke Romney writes Correct, yes, yes. And I’ve been following you for a very long time on Instagram. And if they want to learn more or buy the book, where do they go?

Brooke Romney 30:58
They can go to Brooke romney.com and our resources are there or on Instagram, send me a message, and I’m happy to send you. Send you the way of the

Lisa Marker-Robbins 31:07
books. Okay. Well, thank you, Brooke, I really appreciate it. Thanks, Lisa.

Lisa Marker-Robbins 31:18
If your family has been wondering how to make networking, interviews and professional first steps feel less intimidating. I hope Brooke’s framework of social, physical and relationship manners gives you simple strategies to build your child’s confidence. Try just one micro skill each week to gain traction. And if your student doesn’t yet have a LinkedIn profile or theirs needs a refresh, grab my free LinkedIn profile guide at flourish coachingco.com forward slash LinkedIn. It will walk you through the steps so that your young person can stand out and begin building their network with confidence. If you found this conversation helpful, please share it with somebody. It could be another parent, somebody at your child’s school, a counselor, a teacher, someone that’s supporting young people to launch with clarity and confidence, just like we are. You.

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